Are cryptic clues all they are cracked up to be ?

Tane Cambridge Posted: 22 December 2008, 10:59 AM   Do you really mean no offense intended to South Islanders Simon? Seems like where ever you go there are the occasional shockers of events...you North Islanders obviously don't travel around NZ enough to experience a significant variety of maps and courses in NZ.   Jamie Posted: 22 December 2008, 2:07 PM   addison, you're also talking about SI orienteering events, so a completely differeent kettle of fish... heard that the National schools this year had a bit of an issue.   addison Posted: 22 December 2008, 3:02 PM   not saying I'm prefect mate but at least the terrain was accurately mapped, courses were well designed, checks were in place (but there's always a small risk that checks wont always work) and I/we live and learn.... wish I could say that about all mistakes that are made back to the point, if you want to live in the dark ages with Jamie, go ahead and use cryptic clues. using a cryptic clue doesn't give you any greater ability to use more control sites as some are saying. it just shows more than anything that you have wasted too much time in your planning out in the field trying to be smart, and expect competitors to waste just as much time as you did thinking of it! "I personally think the cryptic clues work to an orienteers advantage since you have to know where you are and can't just randomly run around in the control circle area until you happen to find the flag." This is the biggest joke I've heard! Centre of the circle and a clear feature description is the best advantage for orienteers!   Jamie Posted: 3 February 2009, 9:22 AM   Wasn't quite happy with the conclusion of this ill-informed debate. Simon (have never actually done a rogaine or navigated on topo maps) Addison. And knew I had written something more on the subject somewhere and found it when I was tidying up my website.... http://www.madeventz.co.nz/tmrogaine/news.cfm?id=11 THE GREAT CRYPTIC CLUE DEBATE Well I've been threatening to do this for a while, so I guess as rogaine time of the week quickly comes around again I better get it done! History: Cryptic clue evolution undoubtably started with the great event that is TWALK, that legend of events run by the Canterbury University Tramping Club,(see http://www.cutc.org.nz/twalk/ ...this years dates rumoured to be 17/18 May). Clues along the lines of "students Matt and Gary gulp down their dinner" have seen many fancily dressed team crawling through matagouri bushes to find cabbage trees! I remember one of my first TWALK controls well "sweep the slope", one tiny little broom bush on this big slope....someone (not me) solved it and we were away leading the pack, and the likes of Team Fairydown and MacPac etc (for at least half and hour).... Those of you at rogaine 2 this year would now recognise the various allusions to broom that are possible. Chris comes from an extensive TWALK background, having organised half a dozen or so, and his TWALK sense of humour came out a few times in rogaine 1 with clues like "Trees are green" (bordering on cynical) and "all dried up with the bends" (theme of suffering), not to mention "on the pinnacle of doom" (attempt to create atmosphere, or plain fear, through giving emotional values to landscape features). Moving on from TWALK the cryptic clue concept has been used occasionally in events like Cyclic Saga, Rogaines and Adventure Races but was fulfilled to its potential by the EPIC events run by Bruce McLeod earlier this century. Bruce who is a fantastic navigator pioneered real precision in control placement (using the little dot in the circle, that I tried less effectively last week) and the cryptic clues became a way of describing very accurately checkpoint placements inside a circle. Once a bond of trust was formed between competitors and organisers, they can become a very fair and effective way of providing more navigational challenge. Thoughts: Cryptic clues are a means to reward very precise navigation, to provide a little bit of humour, and to ease organisation. They are (in my opinion) hugely superior to orienteering control flags which are too easy to see, not requiring detailed navigation, and tend to go missing from time to time. The use of cryptic clues leads to upskilling in navigation to a greater degree than standard checkpoints as they require competitors to be more confident about their exact location. How to find them: When placing checkpoints, aside from been as accurate as possible in regards to the centre of the circle (number 1 rule) things I think about are.... - what is distinctive in this area? - how identifiable/unique is the feature - the more unique the more I can obscure it - what direction are teams coming from, what map features will they be reading Once I have placed it I ask is this fair... will good teams who identify the centre of the circle find it almost straight away.... So I reckon approaching checkpoints you can go through the same process - use navigation skills to get to the centre of the circle - ask what is distinctive here? - does the description give me any extra clues, about the direction to approach the checkpoint? - where would the organiser put it? Well ok, some of you may know a bit more now, or maybe not, but hopefully see you tomorrow really looking forward to seeing what Tim and Georgia have put together on the new area! Jamie   Chris Forne Posted: 30 November 2014, 11:11 PM   I just came across this topic - had not seen it before, so thought I had better have my say. In general I agree with Jamie - well done cryptic clues can often improve a rogaine or similar event, and can increase the navigational challenge, further favoring good navigation. However, they do introduce a small amount of luck or 'other skills'. This can add to the enjoyment, especially if competing as a team, but is not suitable for championship or more highly competitive events. I definitely wouldn't want to see cryptic clues introduced in standard orienteering, or national Rogaine champs for that matter. I guess the suitability of cryptic clues really depends on what style of event you are trying hold. I think Jamies guidelines for setting cryptic clues are pretty spot on, so definitely worth reading if you are thinking of using cryptic clues in the future.   JohnR Posted: 1 December 2014, 7:47 AM   Jamie National schools had some issues? Our club has had excellent feedback from schools and individuals and we are not aware of any issues. Could you please explain.   comatose Posted: 1 December 2014, 10:09 AM   Check the date of Jamie's post Robbie, this is an ancient thread...   Jamie Posted: 1 December 2014, 12:01 PM   An ancient thread, but a goodie, go the cryptic clues!   JohnR Posted: 1 December 2014, 12:40 PM   Thanks comatose. Ancient! I cant even remember that year,was Jamie born!   Jenni Posted: 17 December 2014, 5:54 AM   I hope we're over rubbishing SI events now... and I'm glad there wasn't a big fuss made about the control that was in the wrong place at the Auckland middle champs. I was most amused that I was the only elite I talked to who seemed to have noticed - must have been I was the only one going slow enough to take that much notice. It certainly didn't stop me from very much enjoying a great orienteering event. I think maybe the results were a little bit affected as I witnessed Ross running around a bit and so I don't think Carsten would have (just) beaten him otherwise. But that made an old man happy... Otherwise he has to just sit and watch this to relive the good old days... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKE7T98j5x4 By the way this wasn't just a gratuitous post so I could promote my old husband, it only occurred to me to put the link on as I wrote the last sentence! If you do want to have a look then check out about 5:15 into see that C's archilles used to be a bit springy and the start of the race is soon after that, then the finish is at about 32-33 mins or - and the last lap is pretty inspiring (29-33min) (I think so anyway). If you have time to watch the whole race though that's the best as that helps to really feel the pain...   fraser Posted: 17 December 2014, 8:29 AM   nice one, impressive finish sprint   Jamie Posted: 19 December 2014, 1:02 AM   Does Carsten watch the whole 30 minutes every time or just the end?